PSA: Self-Tipping

TL:DR = Self-tipping isn't against the rules but is discouraged as no guarantee you won't be flagged for suspicious activity. So self-tip as your own risk.

Hey all! Because I’ve provided feedback on this before, I wanted to put out a post to address this and provide some corrections that were recently stipulated.

Often people have asked if they could tip themselves. We’ve even had people mention that their Creator account was suspended for tipping themselves. This had been confusing as the official stance that had been seen was the screenshot below:

This said, there are two things which recently have come to light, which I will share below:


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Link to Brave Help Topic in screenshot above:
BAT Creator Grant Guidelines

Link to Chriscat post 3 yrs ago:
How does brave deal with people sending BAT to there own rewards account?

Link to Chriscat post 2 days ago:
Account Under Review

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Hello Saoiray,

In November 2021 I started to collect Brave rewards more seriously after finally investigating what they actually were. I quickly found that for Android my only option to collect those rewards was to sign up for an Uphold account. So I did that. I tried to verify my account immediately once signed up and I was immediately denied an account. I tried to get a reason from their support, but they refused. They wouldn’t giving me any hint of rhyme or reason as to why. I even had the complaint escalated to their senior department and still they denied me and said that they reserve the right whether to tell the customer the reason for the denial or not. Quite poor customer service, IMHO.

None the less, I looked up self tipping and found the information in the first screen shot you posted. So I signed up for a Gemini account and since I was already active on both Youtube and a blog I signed up to be a Brave Creator as well, and honestly it was mostly so that I could actually collect the rewards I was accumulating through my Android devices. I verified my account with Gemini, and had to use wire transfer to verify my bank account (since my institution isn’t setup with their easier way), but that was all completed and even costed me $60 in fees to buy $65 worth of BTC simply so I could be fully verified and again, mostly so I could collect the BAT rewards I was accumulating.

Now, if Brave was to enable Gemini on Android as well, then the statement by bat-chriscat: “Given that you can connect Gemini, Uphold to Brave Rewards as a user, the prevailing view is that there is no ordinary need for a user to tip themselves.”

then that would be a valid statement. The fact is though that there is still a good and valid reason for one to do self tipping, as appears to have formerly been Brave’s stance.

Kind regards

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can i tip to creator account the BAT that i earned during using the browser.
i have linked creator account only to uphold

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I love what you’ve posted. I myself just had my creator’s account under review possibly due to self tipping. My scenario certainly confused me a lot which I also asked in the email responded to suspensions department.
I’m a college student learning programming, so I signed up my creator’s account with my Github repo, and the purpose of it is for someone like my family member and friends to have a chance to support me using their BAT earned through Brave browser. it’s kind of like a Patreon, but instead of having to use their own money to support me, they just use their earned BAT instead. I’ve told almost all my family members and friends I’m close with to switch to use Brave so they can support me in some way. Of course, most of them will have different IPs and devices since they all live in different places and states. It’s been great I have to say for 2 months they get to support me, and I really love this eco system a lot to be honest with you til at the beginning of this month, my account got under review.

This really upset me a lot since I’ve sent the email to suspensions for more than 10 days now, and nothing so far, and my account still shows under review. Like the dude above said, I don’t have a uphold account, but a Gemini account. For me, Brave and BAT can be such a good project for someone like me and for a lot of people who just like to support “certain” people with the way they don’t have to spend their own money especially when the inflation is out the roof.

For the case like mine, I’m sure there are many others like me have the same situation and fall under same scenario. What should we do? I would love to get an opinion from Brave support and see what are our options? Obviously, 4 devices limit is not enough for someone like me. And even with removing device limit, I still don’t have an Uphold account to connect to, and for verifying wallets, with family members might be okay with me, but with friends? I just don’t feel like that’s a viable option here. So what do you guys think? There’s no way for someone like me?

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@liangorange,
We are removing the device linking limits soon. More information on that as it comes.

:point_up: No, this is exactly what this post is about. For all intents and purposes, do not self-tip BAT to your account — it is highly likely that it will get your Creator account suspended.

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I agree, I think removing the device limit is a very good approach to begin with. And I believe Brave and BAT can grow so much with device limit being removed in the near future.

I still don’t know exactly why my account is under review to be honest with you, I did remember tip myself a few times in the past, which I suspend that’s the reason. But will the same device keep tipping the same creator’s account also triggers the ban? Obviously, I don’t expect to get any answer from Brave Support to teach some people how to avoid the ban. But for cases like mine, I have friends whose devices could be using the same IP(obviously different than my own IP), and support me with their BAT every month, I think that’s probably what triggered my account under review.

For cases like this, I really can’t think of other ways to get around it, the only other way is to verify my wallet with his browsers which with family members, that’s fine with me, but with friends? I personally don’t feel safe by doin that. What can we do in this case?

It is, kind of. They announced it’ll be part of Android in 1.38. Also if you want to do the Nightly version, it’s currently running at 1.38. In any case, it won’t be too much longer until it’s available on Brave Release .

Well, guess I have good news for you as well in talking about having Gemini as an option! lol

Write to Brave and request changes, then wait for it to happen. BAT still increases and gets saved. It’s been a long journey as people have been asking for Gemini to be added to Android and we’ve been asking for more than just the 2 options as well, but it’s kind of tricky to find answers.

Also, Pay With BAT is not too far off in the distance, where Brave is going to make it possible to pay subscriptions or access content that Creators and all have to offer. I do hear you though, it’s frustrating, especially when/if we want or need that BAT converted ASAP for personal reasons.

It’s always an interesting conversation. Truthfully, I think the challenge is with everyone having multiple devices, it’s being turned into a “farm” and nobody actually looks at the ads. That isn’t really productive toward the goal that had been set with Brave. It’s kind of shifting from changing the way ads are on the internet to people treating it like mining currency. I’m kind of curious to see what things get implemented in the future because of that, such as making people interact with ads or something. (Not been talked about, just saying I’m curious if they will)

And yeah, wallet/device limit is going away. You can track the status of that at https://github.com/brave/brave-browser/issues/18572

Why aren’t you opening with Uphold? Not allowed in your region?

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So How To Withdraw That Amount @Saoiray @Mattches

Thank you! I will wait for the release though. I have older android tablets, so a little iffy about trying betas. Which I presume is what Nightly is. I hope that all works out.

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I’m kind of confused how allowing multiple device would allow something like farming to be an issue. Cuz I think as of today, you don’t need to click ads in order to earn BAT, is that still the case? If so, then there’s no issue with clicking ads since it’s not required to do in order to earn. I think Brave did a great job on that since the only way I think right now to trigger ads is whether you’re actively using the browser for or not, not depending on how many ads you click like any other reward sites do. And I think that’s the main reason I love about Brave is I can just simply use it to earn.

Like I mentioned above, I think the biggest issue I have is using the creator program the way like how Patreon works but with BAT. I would definitely make a proposal to the team if I know how to since I think this is also the concern some other people have for being a creator and afraid their accounts would be suspended if there are certain group of people just want to contribute to certain creators every month

Let me clarify a bit. Remember what I’m saying is speaking for myself only. This is more of of a theory than anything. Yet I’ll explain also why/how I got to my thinking.

As policy had been, it didn’t matter how many devices you were using, you were limited to 4 per Uphold/Gemini account. This meant it was harder to convert BAT to cash, it was just “useless points” sitting in a browser if you made additional. If you went to self-tip too much, too often or tried to circumvent things to get BAT to yourself, you’d end up flagged and possibly lose everything. (Again, assumption/thought. Not accusing or saying this is what was happening, but it “makes sense” to me.)

As such, even though Brave had been losing out on income to people who weren’t clicking ads and/or who had it running on 4 devices, they were able to have some sort of control to make sure it didn’t get out of line. They also were able to recuperate some of their BAT at times through the closing of accounts. (Yeah, side notes are a pain, but when I didn’t, people tried saying I spoke on behalf of Brave. No evidence of this and I could be wrong all the way. Just is theory from observation and me thinking based on how businesses I’ve worked at or managed would do things)

That is what brought me to the current questioning. If I can run 100+ devices, link them all to the same Uphold/Gemini account, and all of them see the max amount of ads, then where do we stand? If I can get 2-8+ BAT per device, that’s pretty good money overall and I have nothing but incentive to do it. I mean, assuming around 2 BAT, that would be 200 BAT a month by doing nothing. That’s at least $100 a month, if not closer to $200+ depending on the going rate at the time. That sounds like a pretty decent side hustle, especially if no interaction is needed with those devices to earn that BAT. Of course, I’m sure there are others who would be able to use emulators to run however many instances they want of various mobile devices with different IP (you can spoof device location in them) and all through things like BlueStacks to create as many devices as they please. And those numbers were on the “low end” for some regions. If looking at 8+ BAT, those same “100 devices” would be upwards of $800+. That’s not much less than I earn a month right now!

Those things can be harder to catch and control. I’m assuming the device limit had been put in place to prevent users from having this occur. So now that we’re getting rid of the limits I was asking what they were going to be putting in place to limit the chances of people misusing it for income and not really interact with things. If they don’t have a good plan, then it might attract users but I don’t see where it would be attractive to advertisers. I mean, it’s a hit or miss thing. It could just be that rate is low enough that it’s akin to sending junk emails and all for advertising.

But one of the things any place advertising wants to see is conversion. If you can’t show a decent amount of people coming to buy products and all after seeing your ads, then there’s no more reason to want to go through that product in the future.

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Wow, this is eye opening for me, and thanks for explaining all of this.

I have to say, I definitely hate those people who try to or is abusing the system so we have those things put in place to prevent that from happening, but at the same time, those things often get someone like me who might just want support from certain people like Patreon does.

Do you by chance know if there’s an official channel to make suggestions for the scenario I’m in? It’s sad my account is under review, and I’m sure I violate something to trigger the review.

However, I’m also new to the crypto field, but I feel BAT does have so much potential to be big, but I do feel the use case for now is very limited. The more I know about BAT, the more I amazed how little you can actually do with it (pretty much only to tip people, no staking, the transaction fee is insanely high due to being ETH token, so you can’t even use it for transaction unless you’re willing to pay insane transaction fee), but surprisingly BAT is widely available to a lot of exchanges! I think BAT does have great potential to be really big, and maybe that’s why they’re more open to other options like removing device limit so people can use up all their devices to earn BAT (obviously not to scam the system) for whatever reason. I think the nature of people is to earn for themselves, and if they want to cash out, then that’s their choice to do so, but it does drive up the motivation to be active on Brave which increases the number of users and of course attracts more advertisers to it. So I personally think removing device limit is definitely a good approach toward attracting more people, but I would definitely love to see more positive change come to Brave for something like my scenario to allow something like Patreon so you have your followers who would want to support you with the BAT they earn without actually paying anything out of their pockets!

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Well, I guess in a way it would be #brave-feature-requests if it’s a special feature or tweak to how things are done. One of the best ways is finding out who works on that particular area. For Rewards and all, I’m learning who is who. But when it comes to Creators, the only one I know who tends to jump in and handle things is @steeven. So I’m not sure who else handles.

As to suspensions, I know they don’t address any of that here at Brave Community. The only thing they have you do is email them at suspensions@brave.com

Awesome, I’ll think about submitting a feature request, I still need to think about it since I don’t know if that’s really qualify for a “feature”.

As to suspensions, I’ve already sent it the same day I found my Creator’s account was under review. It’s been more than 10 days, but still no response from them and the account still shows under review. So I really don’t know where to go for help for that.

Hello @Saoiray Community Ninja, I’ve a question about self-tipping:

I have this scenario: I live in a building and my neighbour is a Brave creator, she has a design website. I’ve not registered on brave, I only installed Brave and barely receive a few ads. I installed Brave because she told me that it was fast and also wanted that I tip her website at the end of the month. I’ve talked with a buddy who’s into informatics and he told me something about addresses. My question is “If I tip her will it be considered as fraud? Because, as we live in the same small building, we have the same public ip address, maybe Brave might think that we are the same person”.

Hello @Mattches :slightly_smiling_face:

I have 2 scenarios about “self tipping”, some buddies are asking me about this and I don’t know what to reply and also I don’t want them to get a ban. These are the scenarios:
1) A creator who lives in a house with his family. One of them is not registered in uphold/gemini (because doesn’t want to) and tips the creator. Is it appropiate?
2) A creator who lives in a building where all the people has the same internet provider and shares the same public ip address and some of the neighbours tips the creator. Is it appropiate?

Please clarify those thoughts of mine. :+1:

@volsteveca There really won’t be much discussion on that to answer. As has been said, it’s the system which might automatically flag you if it sees something suspicious. When you ask the hypothetical situations and all, it’s beating around the bush.

What I mean is this, let’s assume your situation is completely legitimate. Pretend you get an official response that says you’d have no problem. Well, now Scammer A hears it and says, “oh, I wasn’t manipulating things and circumventing! I was only tipping my friend/mom/sister/neighbor.”

Plain and simple, it’s said self tipping isn’t forbidden. It also doesn’t say you can’t share IP address with people. All it has said is that you share a risk up to the point of the system flagging it for suspicious activity, at which point you’d have to go through the Suspensions process which can be time consuming.

And much like my bad example above, nobody from Brave wants to give specific examples of where it’s okay or not. They don’t want to say "oh, if you want to game the system, here’s how you do it!

Just be advised overall, it’s not meant for you to tip yourself or have those living with you do the same. It’s meant for you to be a Creator that’s reaching out and has an audience in various places around the world. You earn based on your content and the people who like what you’re doing.

NOTE
You mention Community Ninja but let me make sure to remind you, that’s just a badge you get if you’re active and very helpful here. I’m just another user. I don’t work for Brave and can’t speak fully on their behalf. I can only tell you what I have observed and my own opinions, which I often do so in my own phrasing/words.

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If they fix the option that only allows four links maximum to be confirmed to your uphold account, there would be no self tipping. People buy new devices, reinstall their OS, and previous links are not allowed to be erased. After four confirmations linking your account, you are screwed.

@Jsimuaci yeah,… for now you can request for unlinking, since the 4-device limit is still in place yet… I heard some buzz that it will be removed soonest so stay tune…