A Call for Brenden Eich and Jon von Tetzchner to meet & discuss whatever :)


#1

I think the inception of Brave and Vivaldi was more so due to one upholding principality and maintain that more than anything and unarguably both Eich and Tetzchner don’t pretend that this is the primary reason for each individual browsers’ development.

Considering the numerous times I’ve badgered the team rather stupidly on a couple of occasions, please don’t think this is fundamentally a plea for the team to jump the gun to v1.0.0 and get as many engineers in one house to push as many releases just to ease users concern by fixing as many bugs. Though that is what most of the effort is placed on, I don’t think anyone from both sides of the water agree that, that should be the reasoning for it.

I think Brave has stepped up its efforts recently to invite or should I say bring user similarly as has Vivaldi in the same manner but in more lively manner. I don’t want to over speculate but I think this approach of tantalizing users of other browsers is going to give an incredibly difficult stance on both browsers in this small market and while both browsers do have an edge to them, both browsers similarly are in a daunting position and procedure given they have to technically sell a new and unfurnished product which will remain that way for a couple of years to several million users at the least and all of whom are arguably already using a near perfect browser.

I believe Vivaldi rather unfortunately is still at an unprofitable stage as is Brave; to my understanding, Eich raised a total of 42 million from ICO and private investment and Tetzchner is personally funding the project and probably will continue to do so until Vivaldi sees an uptake of several million more users but I think that still won’t be enough to consider it a successful browser, not for Vivaldi necessarily but every browser that isn’t Chrome, Firefox and UC Browser.

Correct me if I’m mistaken but I think Opera has held a stagnant market share of around 5%; I tested it recently having never used it before and I have to say, the startup of the browser is beyond belief, it is truly the best compared to every single other browser in beta and non beta. That being, I wish both browsers could exceed the market share of Opera but I don’t see how it can achieve it soon, not to contradict my self by suggesting acceleration of some kind because I really mean in terms respecting the technology in contrast to the others. A carefully crafted Enterprise version will give a significant boost and would be adored without a shadow of doubt but that isn’t even on the cards yet as brilliantly described by one of the engineers here after I insisted upon it. With a great influx of engineers this would definitely be more ideal sooner and may all the new browser to actually compete with the top three browsers based on a more simple plan for adoption.

I imagine most if not all of the team behind both relatively new browsers are in consensus of the principality behind the framework and the necessity of such a browser and I think what I’m sort of implying but haven’t outspoken should be taken into great consideration (not to come across as demanding :slight_smile: )
Rather than strain users any longer and making it come across as a happy-go-lucky girl trying to set her best friend up on a blind date, could we the community, indulge a For and Against for this topic to see if others agree:

  • Against - Not very competitive but arguably this can be construed as an oxy-moron because both browsers wouldn’t easily compete with the likes of Mozilla and Google anyway, unless one of them liquidates their assets.

  • Against - Integrating that many engineers around one specific product will be a difficult task to undertake and maybe there will be power struggle of some kind. However, I very much doubt that finance unless it’s related to raising funds to garner attention is a huge concern considering they’re quite affluent (not to sound vulgar) and both CEOs have practically been in the same discomfiting situation of letting go of something they co-founded.

  • For - Both CEOs know the feeling of getting shunned :grin: Please don’t consider that an insult, it was the most pleasant way I could have put it

  • For - Both members believe in providing privacy and security and consider it the utmost of importance to protect user privacy

  • For - Brave users wish they could have aspects Vivaldi’s features vice versa

  • For - Vivaldi’s servers are based in secure locations where privacy is more respected on a gov level as well

  • For - Vivaldi could quite easily supersede Brave on UI/UX (currently) Seeing Tetzchner primarily focused on the UI/UX front when he co-founded Opera and similarly when he founded Vivaldi, it would put many traditional browser users at ease.

  • Both are based off of Chromium but I’d like to hear a member of the teams’ response of how different it is after listening to the specific parts on sound cloud (3:34 to 5:05), (16:04 to 20:46) FYI (16:04 to 20:46) is more interesting. Here’s the actual link of sound cloud pertaining to Chromium

  • For - Both teams are always hiring and will be obligated to do so anyway with rapid growth

  • For - Trustworthy individuals behind both browsers, not excluding the team

Finally, braking the mold of speaking indirectly about what I’m implying should happen, which one has a better ring to it - BravAldi or VivaBrave?

First one in my opinion may confuse people with a supermarket chain, where as the second one has a more radical and prominent stance, you know; long live those that are brave.


Too many problems with the browser
#2

Vivaldi browser assigns a unique ID when installing/ updating. This seems to me not very privacy friendly. See https://www.ghacks.net/2018/01/30/vivaldi-browser-privacy/ and https://www.wilderssecurity.com/threads/vivaldi-browser-and-privacy.400229/

In a related way I suppose Brave browser does not do this.


#3

I used to install brave every once in a few months to see if they started to support chrome extensions, or their own dedicated extension store, but un-install it when I find out its not yet here. I don’t use brave because it does not support either firefox or chrome extensions natively. The work around of installing chrome extension is just ridiculous and a lot of them does not work. Even opera is supporting chrome extensions, so I don’t get the reasoning behind the decision of not just natively support chrome extensions since brave is based on chromium. If we have to request other people’s extension to be ported to brave in this brave community, its not very helpful to grow a browser’s user base other than a niche audience.


#4

Same here but not necessarily for extension but particular issue being fixed.
I wish if a member of the team viewing this can consider deploying a ‘keep in touch’ subscription box in the community or an additional one in brave.com primarily for when a particular milestone has been met, or when particular request is finally added.

To answer the second part of your statement, I think they’re trying to get all the major issues as well as a few not so major issues which cause annoyances fixed by not necessarily a deadline but as effectively as possible, at least that’s how I understand it.

In their welcome page, its funny when it reads that they add more extensions with every release knowing they’ve had around 460 releases :laughing:
To be honest though, I personally wouldn’t think it would be okay for the team to dedicate efforts to forking all those upvoted extensions because it would be hectic, especially when there are more imperative issues that would likewise be questioned if a desired extension was already available.

They’ve obviously managed this to a tee and after v1.0.0 which maybe just shy of 2019 (not that they’ve said this) they’'ll begin to put more resources behind corresponding with extension developers and forking solutions and maybe versions of their own.

Seeing as you pasted your comment here @silenceofthehorizon what do you think of the suggestion above because it would certainly help, don’t you think?


#5

Your proposal is quite interesting. It would be nice to have more information from the dialogue between them. But if i am not wrong, vivaldi is not still open source right? So they have different visions for their browsers. What I more care about is that brave becomes a bit more transparent about their development activities. Like one developer mentioned the fact that they will eventually include support for webextension in brave. They should be more transparent about their open source browser development.

I agree with your milestone tracking in their homepage. It would really help to make a decision when to completely switch to brave. But their marketing strategy, feels like they want to ship a commercial browser like chrome, like easy to understood by general users(but they will find out that the one or two important extensions they used in chrome or firefox does not exits and leave!), which I am not saying is a bad thing. But as an open source software, they should be more clear about their future development cycles, adding some fundamental features like a dedicated place for extensions along side their millions of dollars worth of advertisement campaign in youtube channels and twitch.


#6

For - Open source, then? They sort of are but not as open as Brave is in Githubs platform.

Tetzchner mentions this aspect to the interviewer and confirms that despite many aspects of the browser are open-source they wish to be more open at a later date (paraphrase)

For something quite major like Brave, I think they’re are as open as one can be in relation to future development cycles but are stuck in pending - purposefully, this is obviously due to other parts being developmed though but not necessarily what we can actually touch right now with the browser.

In addition to their milestone, they do also inform users about their Brave Development Timeline - FYI, Tor was supposed to be after 1.0 but I think they found good reason for implementation coherently and surprisingly I think we may see something relatively soon.

As for Requested - Pending - Investigating - Reviewed - Supported Extensions, a dedicated place can be found in that link but like I mentioned before, they’ve intentionally put a halt on development in that area for the time being.

It was mentioned in Easier Enabling of Extensions the reason for it now being more easily accessible to users right now, was/is because of their dependency on Electron and the fact they don’t want to support all of Chrome’s APIs (Electron that is) which I find odd because if they’ve forked their own version (Moun) why does it still make it difficult or challenging should I say?

It would be the best thing if Tetzchner and Eich saw this and began corresponding back and forth, also a great story as well, if anything happened :slight_smile:

UPDATE:

Turns out they’re going to deprecate their fork of Electron (Moun) altogether for a more Chromium environment - Plans for Upcoming 1.0 Browser Release

If Brave’s blocking engine would have been more efficient in that environment from the beginning, why didn’t you guys just start with that?

To be honest I wouldn’t be surprised if Google opts for the Quantum engine for a more rusty environment now and then Brave following suit.


#7

Well finally they will be supporting extensions, that will make Brave my default browser. As of their technology choices, their internal decisions in that won’t matter much if they stay true to their core ethics, privacy. If they go for chromium route full on, it will fast by default, but that’s not their main selling point to the users. Its the privacy. If they can keep all the google tracking codes out of their browser(where waterfox failed to remove all mozilla tracking telemetry nonsense), users like me will care less what engine they utilize. I saw a few months old interview of Brenden Eich with Bryan Lunduke and Brenden seems to be dead on serious in the privacy matters. I want that!! I want someone who will push for uncompromising privacy as possible, without hiding behind confusing “Privacy Policy” to exploit users. Lets see where Brave actually ends up though.


#8

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