Please add more wallets to send BATs to

Brave Rewards
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Hi,
Please add others exchanges/wallets than only Gemini and UpHold to send BATs to. I’m in France, so I can’t get a Gemini account, and UpHold is freezing accounts (and their tokens) with no reason (see reddit/UpHold and TrustPilot/UpHold). I didn’t successfully verified my account on UpHold because “the picture on my ID card (valable in France, verified and accepted by French administration) is too old to actually verify it’s me”. So UpHold is more tight than French Administration on ID cards :joy: :joy: Unfortunatelly I don’t have any other ID so I can’t move my BATs at all :sob:
They are old, not reliable, monolithic apps, who are well known to dysfunction in the crypto world (UpHold is even scam-associated).
As of 2022, where wallets like MetaMask are legions, and trusted exchanges like CoinBase, Binance, Bitstamp etc are too, why do we have to chose between the 2 worst crypto actors of the entire internet ? :frowning:

Will Brave add new solutions to move BATs out of brave ?

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The problem is they are not custodial wallets. Brave needs to have companies/exchanges that have custodial wallets AND have money transmitter licenses. Places like CoinBase, Binance, and even MetaMask are self-custody wallets along a chain. The same way that Brave Wallet is at this time.

Brave is always looking for options, but at this point it’s not looking good. I recently tried to follow-up with Brendan Eich, CEO of Brave, to ask about how things were looking for THEMIS as they were looking at that for decentralized wallets. I emphasized the need for this as we are seeing issues with governments, such as how right now places like Vietnam, Russia, etc are being blocked on these exchanges. His response was:

Themis => decentralized ad buyer performance verification. Doesn’t help with compliance, nothing does. LN doesn’t help, nodes must be licensed MSBs or MTLs which means they will have to KYC for AML and sanctions :frowning:

And in regards to why Brave doesn’t allow Brave Rewards to go to Brave Wallet:

Brave Wallet is a self custody wallet and therefore we cannot currently pay to it for the user rev-share for ads. We would need to KYC/AML your address and may also need a money transmitter license to do so.

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Jumping in here because I want these points clarified if possible. Maybe @Aman_M can jump in? Seems like he is going to be the go to guy of the moment for all things crypto. Sorry Aman, let me know if you would rather I didn’t tag you! :laughing:

My Understanding ( for what it is worth and please correct terminology if inaccurate):

I’ll use Coinbase, but I think it applies to others, like Binance and even Gemini, as well. Like Brave Rewards and Brave Wallet there is a difference between Coinbase and Coinbase Wallet. Coinbase is an exchange (custodial) and Coinbase Wallet is a self-custody wallet. Even with Gemini, we are creating and linking custodial accounts which require KYC. So, theoretically, a Coinbase option could be available.

I have no idea why Brave doesn’t add more custodial options. Maybe it is a business decision at some level? Maybe it is too programming intensive at this time? Maybe Brave Rewards needs more development before it can offer other solutions? Who knows.

My two cents for what it is worth! Can I get that in ETH? lol

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Custodial Wallets are those wallets of which we don’t hold seed phrase/private keys. They are in the custody of the exchange like Uphold, Gemini etc. So funds in the custodial wallets are with the exchange and they can block our access to it if they wanted to.

Non-custodial Wallets or Self-Custody wallets are those of which we have the seed phrase/private keys. So funds are safely in our custody as long as only we have the keys.

Binance and Coinbase offer both type of wallets. Chocoholic has got it covered here :point_down:

Not sure if Gemini offers a self-custody wallet.

I would agree (the custodial one).

And I don’t mind being tagged anywhere (no weird imaginations please).

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They do now. It was released recently.

Thank-you, Aman! And tag was a favorite when I was a kid… :joy:

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I’ve been trying to figure it out. When I looked through help guides and all on Binance, it kept wanting to refer me to Binance Custody whenever it referred to custodial wallets. Then once I’d click on Get Started it brought me to a sign up page where it said Please provide us with information about your business to register for Binance Custody products

Then it mentioned on another page that

Binance Chain was launched by Binance in April 2019. Its primary focus is to facilitate fast, decentralized (or non-custodial ) trading.

Sadly on that page, it never explicitly said whether Binance Smart Chain was a custodial wallet. So I kept researching and ended up at places like https://10clouds.com/blog/defi/binance-smart-chain/ and https://academy.binance.com/en/articles/the-best-crypto-wallets-for-binance-smart-chain-bsc

Most BSC wallets will be non-custodial, meaning you have control of your private key. BSC wallets are also typically hot wallets that allow you to quickly connect to DApps or start staking.

So now both chains on Binance say non-custodial. Granted, they definitely speak it to make it seem like Binance has a custodial wallet, but I can’t find it anywhere on the internet where they say their wallets are custodial. The closest I get is the quote below I found at https://academy.binance.com/en/articles/the-best-crypto-wallets-for-binance-smart-chain-bsc :

But be careful. While this is safe to do on Binance, you should not trust your funds to any custodial wallet or exchange.

So all of this is where it gets confusing. If their “custodial” wallet really is Binance Custody and it’s for businesses only according to their links, then they don’t really have custodial wallets for us. Sure, other companies have wallets available on the chain but if it’s not just strictly custodial, then there’s the issue.

I spent hours looking. While I find the occasional site that lists Binance as custodial, I can’t actually find the explicit words anyway. The closest I get is from 3rd party sites that say things like:

Centralized cryptocurrency exchanges (Coinbase, Binance, etc.) provide custodial cryptocurrency wallets (sometimes known as ‘web wallets’).

As to Coinbase, their website straight up says they are non-custodial.

Coinbase Wallet is a self-custody wallet, giving you complete control of your crypto.

But then I do also see things like quote below from https://www.makeuseof.com/custodial-vs-non-custodial-crypto-wallets/#:~:text=Some%20of%20the%20most%20popular,party%20to%20secure%20your%20funds. :

Some of the most popular crypto exchanges, such as Coinbase or Gemini, are considered custodial wallets.

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Basically, there’s a lot of information out there and it gets confusing sometimes. But just wanted to show things I kept coming across which is why I originally was saying from that I could see, they were essentially non-custodial.

Oh, in other news though, I did find it interesting to see Binance.us is saying they are getting MTL which is one of the things mentioned as a barrier for receiving BAT in wallets. https://blog.binance.us/binance-us-receives-money-transmitter-license-in-wyoming/

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@Saoiray I understand. It is difficult to begin the journey of crypto. I would keep it short otherwise OP will be lost in so much details.

Almost all the platforms that have a trading interface provide a custodial wallet. They are also referred to as centralised exchanges. Trading on these platforms is just equivalent to swap in a self-custody wallet. And they do so to save Gas fee for each trade/transaction as trades are not processed on the blockchain unlike swaps.

If you register on https://www.binance.com/en or here-https://www.binance.us/en/home, what you will have is a custodial wallet meaning you won’t have access to keys.

And this is the extension of Binance self-custody wallet like Metamask or Brave Wallet, link. Here you will get your seed phrase/private keys.

I don’t think I would make much sense, best way to learn is to try it out yourself and you will be able to make the distinction.

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It is confusing, I am still confused. I’m just going to mention a few things about Coinbase and Binance to hopefully highlight differences in their products and services. I definitely do not want to go down any rabbit holes to avoid passing on misinformation. I might still pass on misinformation but hopefully it will be limited! lol

I find reading the documentation provided by whatever product you are looking at helpful. Usually, if they offer multiple products or services, they will explain the difference. Some of the documentation is better than others, but if you read enough, you can pull out keywords to get a sense of what type product they are offering if they don’t come right out and tell you.

Coinbase Products/Services

  1. Coinbase.com is the custodial exchange website. Referred to as Coinbase. Supports all platforms.
  2. Coinbase.com/wallet is the self-custodial wallet. Referred to as Coinbase Wallet. Only available on mobile devices and as an extension. You have to link your Coinbase Wallet to your Coinbase account to use with Coinbase.

From a Coinbase Help Topic (.com removed from Coinbase within the text):

What’s the difference between Coinbase.com and Coinbase Wallet?

Coinbase is a crypto brokerage where you buy or sell crypto in exchange for cash. Coinbase stores your crypto for you after you buy it. You do not need a Coinbase account to use Coinbase Wallet.

Coinbase Wallet is a self-custody wallet. The private keys (that represent ownership of the crypto) are stored directly on your device and not within a centralized exchange like Coinbase. Think of your Coinbase account as a brokerage that can store your crypto for you, and Wallet like a traditional cash wallet that gives you direct and complete control over your own crypto assets.

Binance Products/Services
I do not think Binance’s documentation is robust but it is available and can be helpful.

  1. Binance.com is the custodial exchange website. It is not available to US residents.
  2. Binance.us is the custodial exchange available to US residents. Some states are excluded. They are adding more states as time goes on; the list of excluded states was longer just a few months ago.
  3. Binance Wallet/Trust Wallet This one is tricky and I can’t pin down the information in the documentation provided. From my understanding, and I could be totally wrong, Binance has two crypto wallet products and owns both. Binance Wallet is integrated into the exchange and is not a full self-custodial wallet. Trust Wallet is a full self-custodial wallet. I do not know if you have to link Binance Wallet or not. You do have to link Trust Wallet.

I tried to join Binance US at one point but my state was not allowed. It is now. I might just join to see if I can figure out the wallet thing! lol

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Wow guys, thank you all for your informative coverage!

Thank you for this clarification! This makes me say that I finally prefer (as a final casual Brave user) to use custodial wallets, because of the keys remaining secret on their original wallet, and not spread across others parties like Brave etc. I am trusting Brave enought to let them keep my private keys, but from a security pov, the less you share the keys, the more security you have. Brave wallet is of course exempted because the keys are generated AND stored at the same place.

My actual issue is especially with the only two available wallets for Brave for now . Gemini is not accepting French residents, and UpHold has several known issues that don’t let me verify my account. I know custodial wallets like Coinbase or Binance will cause less pain for users in my geographical situation, as Coinbase and Binance are seemingly welcoming more West European residents than Gemini & UpHold. We, western europe users, will be glad if a solution is found through a Coinbase or Binance custodial wallet one day :wink:

Stating this, I understand the requirements of KYC + money transmitter license for Brave to pay users rev-share for ads, and I understand that Brave don’t want to go that far for now. And anyway, it seems that trying to avoid KYC/money transmitter license will be harder and harder through times.

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For example, the only way I found to retrieve BATs (aside spending ad rewards on websites through the BAT reward system) is to send them to a UpHold Wallet owned by one of my foreigner friends. He then send me my BATs back to a custodial wallet, not supported by Brave. It’s a heavy process to cash out €3,5- ! :joy:

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at least brave should let user exchnge the bat for steam gift :smiley: so i can use the bats for buying game

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is that legal? i mean , are brave allowed it ?

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Very good idea, I’ll use my bats that way too!

I don’t know, I think Brave don’t care where I send my tokens to, and it’s the only solution for me!

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