Consider replacing Uphold

This is a Feedback. Brave company should consider replacing Uphold for another Exchanger company, fees in Uphold are ridiculously high. Suggestion: Coinbase and Binance.

8 Likes

If you want to suggest some exchanges, it’s better you write to them directly. Brave is always looking to add new ones. If many people write to the exchanges to partner with Brave, they’ll find a way to make it happen.

6 Likes

So we have to do this company’s job now? I’m already manifesting my interest in using other exchanges here, why should it be me contacting them anyway? How many users were there when Brave decided it was going to be Gemini and Uphold the only available companies for wallets? I’m already taking my time to write a feedback here, I have waste my time now going after each company that could work with Brave? Do something with the feedbacks posted in this community, create a manifest, a poll, ask people to vote and to show their opinions, open a forum category where people can manifest interest in other wallet companies and then from those resources Brave could contact those exchanges. Telling Brave users that they should be the ones reaching out to those exchanges is the same as defying their intelligence. I can’t believe I’ve read what I’ve just read.

2 Likes

@spikespiegel Actually, they are working on adding new partners but it’s taking them a long time. Supposedly one was about ready to onboard and get the ball rolling, but then some of these regulations changed for India (and others), so they went back to the drawing board. At least that’s the story that they told.

Also know Luke has said they’ve been having meetings with different companies in various countries. So it’s definitley a work in progress. Big thing is both companies have to benefit and there are a lot of costs associated. So it’s tough to get the kinks worked out.

It’s not like exchanges receiving Rewards payments are going to profit much from it in general. Hence why they said if Users can create a demand, where the exchanges see people are using it or that it would bring them more income, then it would be easier. Just have to hit it from different angles.

3 Likes

Bureaucracy is not our Brave Rewards users problem, we already do our part by agreeing with the freaking KYC, letting the government know what we’re doing with our own money, so me I myself don’t see why are you talking about bureaucracy here.

"It’s not like exchanges receiving Rewards payments are going to profit much from it in general. "

This is uphold:
" We charge 0% withdrawal fees but we do charge a spread. We charge a $0.99 USD transaction fee on all transactions between assets where the amount transacted is under $250 USD in value excluding transactions made using the Uphold Debit Card **."

0.99 USD out of every transaction below $250USD. It’s safe to say that Brave doesn’t pay much per month to Brave Rewards users, meaning that If I get 4 BAT in one month, using Uphold to receive the money I won’t be able to exchange the money (actually I will be, but I should not), because right now 4 BAT equals to $1.07, so I’ll have to pay $0.99 as a fee, leaving me only with the equivalent to 8 cents. That’s nuts. This way I’ll be forced to keep the money as BAT, FOR MONTHS, until I see I won’t lose much if I exchange it, the problem is:

WHAT’S THE POINT IN DOING THAT ANYWAY?

What am I getting from this? What I want is to be able to exchange the BAT for anything else the sooner I get it in my wallet, I shouldn’t be “forced” to keep my money as BAT, I want to be able to buy some Stablecoin or maybe some Cryptocurrency like Bitcoin, without having to pay an absurd in fees, this way I can profit in the long term. And you want to know why? Because Brave’s BAT is too little and it’s not very profitable like Bitcoin (for example). I believe a lot of people will agree with me that there’s no advantage whatsoever in keeping BATs inside the wallet.

So you tell us that companies don’t profit much, how about us Brave Rewards users? What do we mean to Brave company here? What is our role here?
We’re the ones making the money and you tell us about the exchange not profiting much?
Telling me that this or that company is not seeing much profit is not solving my problem at all, it’s just a bad excuse to evade responsibility.

Give people a voice in YOUR environment, YOUR community, don’t tell them to go after the exchanges and then passively blame them for Brave’s company mistakes, because that’s very unprofessional. Or are those really mistakes? I don’t know, something seems really weird here, it’s like the company wants the user to have no option but to keep the BAT inside those ONLY two wallets (uphold and gemini), I’m just sayan.

8 Likes

@Saoiray 0 - @spikespiegel 1

I just love arguments, and plausible ones.
Btw, @spikespiegel , you could have started a pool by yourself, and ask to be pinned(if ever will be possible).
I totally agree with you, since i know that B.E left the keyboard years ago, and the developers that actually have to implement the features/partners… kind su.ck.
Why? Apart from the problem you mentioned, i have to add others that have weeks since the response was working on it.

  1. Cropped view for creator dashboard(buy PC, or never can edit that settings.)

  2. Verified Creator visibility avaible for user that use a PC(weird again, since they have to buy now PC.).

  3. Irregular amounts that actually i have to receive based on the ads(now i will stay crouch, since i got waaaay more than supposed.).

  4. I won t continue with other issues that are present in Android, but certainly i can add the one that fits the topic:

I had 247 BAT, and was impossible to withdraw from UPHOLd, since it was needed an amount >250 (now i understand why, and btw is hilarious).

As my first line starting comment, you got my attention and tou would had my vote, if you had started one.
Cheers.

7 Likes

It was supposed to be just a feedback about, SINCERELY, replacing that AWFUL exchange. Turned out that things are more weird than I thought. But anyway, after what happened in 2021, 2022, where a lot of countries stopped being supported by the exchanges for receiving money from Brave Rewards (and how this stressed out a lot of users for several months), we shouldn’t be surprised with things that would come later. I’m already preparing for the worse, in case something unexpected happens. Being passively forced to hold our bats in an exchange, where we only have two exchanges as options, is a huge red flag.

A word of advice for other users: do not keep any BATs in your browsers, always withdraw the sooner you can, you may feel forced to choose to hold them in the exchanges, but at least it’s safer than keeping them in a browser which, in my opinion, is going to either disappear or discontinue Brave Rewards in the future. Why? Bad logistics (and that’s not something that started recently).

2 Likes

maybe we should create a poll to decide on an echange so we all can write to them in large numbers to get them on board. maybe that will solve the problem.
cos i’m tired of uphold.

4 Likes

After the staff replies I’ve received here, I don’t think there’s any interest from anyone at Brave’s company to work with new exchanges, but anyway I’m all in for giving a shot. Someone tell me how to best proceed and I’ll open a poll, or someone else open a poll and I’ll gladly participate in it. I’m also sick of Uphold.

1 Like

@spikespiegel if you’re ever available on Tuesdays around 5pm EST, you really should attend Community Call. They’ve already long announced they are in negotiations with companies and working on it. What’s taking them so long is definitely a bit question, but it’s coming.

They just said don’t want to get into a lot of specifics, but it’s been a lot of challenges between changing regulations, negotiations on fees, and other things. As Brendan said last year, it’s not like it’s something Brave can just decide and act on alone.

Payments happen in two different ways. In some, they are sending vBAT which then gets converted. In the other, such as with Uphold at this time, Brave does a direct deposit. There are fees associated with those deposits and all. Whether you want to consider gas fees or otherwise. As Brave won’t reveal much, we have no clue who has to eat those fees. I’m assuming it’s the custodial partner, as it would explain why Uphold introduced the fees to try to make up for losses. But it’s not just that, we’re seeing that places are getting stricter and crazy. An example of this is India’s new rules that went into place, which you can read at https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2023/02/01/india-keeps-restrictive-crypto-tax-rules-in-2023-budget/ though there’s more to it.

If you check current gas prices and average, you’ll see it’s currently more than $1

So what exchanges are doing is having us cover the fees of moving our crypto. Why should the eat it and have no profit? Or worse yet, why should they lose money just to benefit you and everyone else? They are a business that has to make money to keep going.

Community Call? How come is a live stream going to solve anything anyway, are the exchange companies going participate too? Which ones and how many? I highly doubt that binance or whichever has anyone taking part in those live streams. Also, a live stream is a video, it’s not a written document that anyone can check faster than having to watch an entire video.

11:59

They’ve already long announced they are in negotiations with companies and working on it. What’s taking them so long is definitely a bit question, but it’s coming.

12:00

They just said don’t want to get into a lot of specifics, but it’s been a lot of challenges between changing regulations, negotiations on fees, and other things. As Brendan said last year, it’s not like it’s something Brave can just decide and act on alone.

They’re working on it, but they’re not transparent at all and we Brave Reward users should just sit and wait, being treated like idiots, just like last time when this company had to deal with local regulations in a lot of countries for several months and we Brave Reward users had to just sit and wait. One thing that has been suggested in this community by different people is the ability to one use his own decentralized wallet to get the money, but this has always been ignored by the team.

So what exchanges are doing is having us cover the fees of moving our crypto. Why should the eat it and have no profit? Or worse yet, why should they lose money just to benefit you and everyone else? They are a business that has to make money to keep going.

Did you notice when I said that Uphold is charging $0.99USD out of every transaction? EVERY transaction, and this is every transaction inside the wallet, it’s not a fee charged for receiving money from Brave, also go look at other exchanges like coinbase and binance, see if they’re charging their fees the same way, they’re not. And what do Brave has to do with all of this? It has to do with the fact that we have no other options to receive money. vBat? I not even know what that is, when I started using this service, only options I saw where either using Uphold or Gemini for receiving money.

So what exchanges are doing is having us cover the fees of moving our crypto. Why should the eat it and have no profit? Or worse yet, why should they lose money just to benefit you and everyone else? They are a business that has to make money to keep going.

And? Seriously, why are you using a strawman fallacy?
Where, in any part of this discussion, have I said that Brave and those companies have to work for free? It’s clear enough that we’re not discussing about what happens between Brave and those exchanges before and during the process of transferring the BAT to their wallet services.

This is what’s being discussed here, I’ll make it plain clear, so anyone can understand:

I’m talking about the fact that we can only use 2 exchanges for receiving BAT from Brave, and that Brave company should consider adding more exchanges as options for transferring money, because fees are too high in (in my case) Uphold. When I mentioned fees, it was elaborate as to why I do not wish to use Upholad anymore. PERIOD.

I don’t care, and neither I think why should other Brave Rewards users care, about this company’s poor logistics. For the second time you’re talking to us users as if we’re the ones to blame for this company’s irresponsibility in keeping this environment profitable for all the involved parts. If Brave can’t solve our problem, we’ll just stop using this service, that means either disabling ads or moving to another browser, we should not take our time to think about how selfish we are for not caring about whatever info you use in order to try to justify this outcome as our problem.

2 Likes

It’s actually a Brave Talk. Where you can hear people like Luke Mulks and Brendan Eich speak. In addition, it gives us the chance to ask questions and get answers. We do it every week. A lot of these things have been discussed there. Not sure if you’ve ever seen prior calls, but they are usually shared afterwards at https://www.youtube.com/@BasedBraveUser/videos for anyone who missed them.

It’s whenever any BAT from browser is used for a transaction. So when you go to pull it to your bank account or whatever, they charge. That’s because it has to be pulled from your account and placed elsewhere. There are gas fees and all associated. Any time you move cryptocurrency anywhere, there are gas fees.

You’re complaining that they have the fee added. This leads people to believe they should be offering the service to you at no cost. Is this not what you’re saying?

Correct. And I have shared that this is because Brave hasn’t been able to get any arrangements with other businesses. My assumption is that it’s because other companies don’t want anything to do with Rewards and all, as it’s a lot to handle in terms of fraud and all. They just want to be set up for people to send and receive, not to go through the nightmare of what this system is.

The ideal situation would be for Brave to do the KYC/AML themselves and then to send to our designated custodial partners or Brave Wallet directly. But they aren’t comfortable getting to that point, at least not yet. They have very little staff and don’t have the overhead to build out anything solid that would keep information secured. Not to mention all of the licenses and other headaches from compliance with government regulations.

Yep, that’s capitalism at work. People speak with their money and attention. Everything Brave does, no matter how small, will either attract people or cause others to stop. We do it on a daily basis with restaurants, products, TV shows or networks, etc. What works for one person doesn’t always work for another. You can’t make everyone happy.

It’s whenever any BAT from browser is used for a transaction. So when you go to pull it to your bank account or whatever, they charge. That’s because it has to be pulled from your account and placed elsewhere. There are gas fees and all associated. Any time you move cryptocurrency anywhere, there are gas fees.

Mate I don’t know why are you bringing this up, I hope you don’t honestly think that anyone here is suggesting that people should work for free.

You’re complaining that they have the fee added. This leads people to believe they should be offering the service to you at no cost. Is this not what you’re saying?

Nope. I’m complaining that I rather pay someone else’s transaction fees than Uphold’s or Gemini’s. It’s not hard to understand what I’m saying here.

Correct. And I have shared that this is because Brave hasn’t been able to get any arrangements with other businesses. My assumption is that it’s because other companies don’t want anything to do with Rewards and all, as it’s a lot to handle in terms of fraud and all. They just want to be set up for people to send and receive, not to go through the nightmare of what this system is.

The ideal situation would be for Brave to do the KYC/AML themselves and then to send to our designated custodial partners or Brave Wallet directly. But they aren’t comfortable getting to that point, at least not yet. They have very little staff and don’t have the overhead to build out anything solid that would keep information secured. Not to mention all of the licenses and other headaches from compliance with government regulations.

Again: Not my actual problem.

Yep, that’s capitalism at work. People speak with their money and attention. Everything Brave does, no matter how small, will either attract people or cause others to stop. We do it on a daily basis with restaurants, products, TV shows or networks, etc. What works for one person doesn’t always work for another. You can’t make everyone happy.

I rather look at it as free market, most people tend to mistook capitalism for corporatism, but free market, a priori, means that every individual action is to meet an end in a non-coercive environment, and that’s what I’ve done here, my purpose here was to give a feedback, which I did, but which is not my obligation at all, I’m not even obliged to do other stuff like opening a poll (and don’t worry, I’m not saying that you’re saying it is my obligation), and I was replied with excuses that are not even my problem. Like most users, I could have just chosen to not say anything and move on, but instead, I gave a feedback and got no honest reply whatsoever, which means I wasted my time.

You can’t please everyone? Do you have any idea of what you’ve just said?
If you have a company and employees/partners/customers are complaining about something that is making them lose money, and it’s your company’s fault, is that what you tell them, “You can’t please anyone”?

So I bought a PS5 and received a PS4 instead, then Sony turns to me and says: “you can’t please everyone.” lol

Alright, enough internet for today.

1 Like

Nah, it’s like you bought a PlayStation 5 but you’re upset because you can’t play Halo Infinite on it. Or maybe would be closer to say you got the PlayStation 5 but then get upset because they don’t let you connect to Game Pass. Or you get upset because you can’t play Pokemon on it! You demand they replace PlayStation Plus with Xbox Game Pass, Nintendo Switch Online, Steam, or some other online game service!!!

Brave’s service has always been limited. Originally was no custodial partner. Then they added Uphold. Then later on was Gemini. Some issues hit and they rescinded service. so yeah, now you’re here griping and saying you want another option. This is something Brave has heard and said they are working on.

But regardless, there’s going to be limits. So for the person who bought PlayStation 5 and get upset they can’t play Xbox games on it, is that Sony’s fault? There are always going to be people with unrealistic expectations. Just as there are others who will have great ideas or desires, but life just doesn’t let it happen as fast as they want. So yes, good companies do have to look and say “you can’t please everyone.”

2 Likes

Actually you only get a choice of two in the US. For everyone else I do believe there’s only one option, Uphold. :thinking:

2 Likes

That means, 1 fee/month since transfer Betwen users is FREE in the custodials.

And yes, finished my popcorn ! nice arguments here!
I still want to see here in community, hot topics that can get pinned, and voted.
Cheera!

@Saoiray You’re only making it worse. Each message of yours has a different and uglier semantic juggling, it’s funny how you actually deeply believe you can defy people’s intelligence and get away with it. You wasted like 20 lines of text talking a non sequitur nonsense, you’re being delusional if you actually believe Brave Rewards even remotely compares to the analogy you’ve just written. it’s plain simple: This company doesn’t give a damn about Brave Reward users, but I’m not wasting my time explaining any further, I think I’ve explained way too much, well, except for one thing: this was supposed to be just a feedback and look at this mess now, you’re trying so hard that you’re not even care if people see you lying.

Well, for whoever is following up this thread, read my previous messages to see what’s actually going on here, no need to believe me straight away, the proof is there.
Mister xbox player, you may go on with your bs, I’m not wasting my time on you anymore.

@Michael-Alexander Oh really? I’m eager to know the procedure for this. Please tell me how to get a direct deposit each month. I beg of you, PLEASE, because I’m sick of all this hypocrisy.

It seems i was misunderstood, Brave makes 2 deposits for each custodial partner(There is the fee).

  • 1 for the rewards
  • 2 for creators

Uphold, in my example, follow some inhouse rule to distribute of rewards/tips to specific users(this transactions are free.)

Diclaimer
Maybe there are certain fee, when you signed up with custodial as business, which i don t know anything further.

If i am wrong in some way, please someone correct me.

Edit

I have to add, that all the informations i have, are only from brave source, and interpreted by me.
As example, i a still trying to understand the smart contract, using AI, to explain the code for me. (exp as web dev >3 years)

You are not alone in replacing/expanding your list of partners. But alas, things stand still.

I don’t know the interior. But it will be more convenient for me, as a user, to receive direct crediting by wallet number in the same bitcoins / LTC / MATIC.

1 Like