Yandex Search less censored than Brave Search? Please say it isn't so!

@talgeeze Can you elaborate on your opinion here?

Typing random words on a search engine and ranking the results according to the number of sources that go along with your own views is not a critical approach.

I appreciate your response … I don’t see the randomness here that you cite, though.

Did you even read that “article”?

@talgeeze I read the whole thing … I happen to agree with the author of that article, also, after reading it.

Read about how brave search index functions in detail. https://support.brave.com/hc/en-us/articles/4409406835469

Read about what is goggles feature that they are launching in detail https://brave.com/static-assets/files/goggles.pdf.

Brave search has recently come out of beta and is quite a new product.

Your opinion that yandex censors less compared to western search engines is wrong (IMO). Yandex bows and obeys what russin federation asks them. Meaning just as some western search engines will bury pro-russian content, yandex will bury pro-western content.https://reclaimthenet.org/yandex-adds-misinformation-labels-as-russia-warns-media/ (the yandex thing currently is not similar to ddg/qwant but will eventually increase.)

I have no idea who the author of the substack article is, but I don’t think he is well versed in tech topics. Yandex is a good search engine, no doubt about it, it is best for searching torrents/porn/pirated stuff/reverse image search.

Afaik, the author of the article does not seem to know much about mojeek or how it functions. Do read about mojeek a bit further.

Damn some people are so dumb it’s hard to believe they’re real.

@talgeeze Some people are so rude nowadays when one is trying to figure things out here … I am not surprised, though … it is a sign of the times we live in, sadly.

Thank you @chh_68 !!! Very informative and helpful!

Just ignore it. I think we should stop discussion due to some replies on the post.

A fake test designed by an extremely politized tinfoil hat conspirationnist to comfort his own views and further politize his readers.
Please, use your brain.

Thank you for your opinion, @talgeeze … I am not convinced you are right … at least, @chh_68 gave me some good food for thought here that seems more plausible in regards to the article I posted here.

Well, you have to understand Yandex has many more years ahead of Brave search.

Brave search does decently, people could argue that one of the problems is how there should be more than 20 results (2 pages worth of results), just so you have more room to see if you get what you want.

Yandex shows Nitter, Bitchute and other pages that are not the usual search. I was actually surprised to see even Nitter listed in the Yandex results, since it would make ‘more sense’ to show Twitter, but Nitter technically is better for privacy.

I have been using Yandex lately but I switch to Brave when I know I am getting captchas a lot.
Sometimes I have to do the easy lang:en in order to get the english results (faster than using panel which can’t be hidden anyway).

Another problem with Brave is they use Google to fill the bad results, so like even Brendan says, you will get ‘censored’ results out of the bat, but the hopes is when Brave is ready and doesn’t need Google or Bing for help, you will get more unbiased results.

Also Brendan yesterday talked about Goggles being available soon, I don’t know how they are implementing it but sounds like a double edge sword since it can help with censorship but in some countries government might use them to lock you down in your results. There was a discussion about it, but I am hopeful it will help. https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/1502065094242578439

The truth is even Gigablast does better in some cases than Brave, most of their results are not that great since they never used Google or Bing to help build their own indexer.
So, the same could be say about how Gigablast doesn’t censor in some stuff compared with Brave.

But anyway, NOBODY has provided any evidence of nothing. I can and I don’t care if you agree or not example queries I will provide, I will make the point why Yandex.

  1. CGPERSIA You will literally not get the .com version in Brave. Which you don’t even get in Google either. You get it on Yandex and Bing and Gigablast and everyone else.

  2. Audioz again, Brave doesn’t give you the domain but some blog page 381 or something. Yandex gives you the .download just fine. After the 1st result, you won’t get anymore entries about it. While Yandex gives you more audioz pages.

  3. Goyimtv In this case Brave gives you the domain, but then, it gives you ‘anti’ pages telling you how terrible it is. While Yandex tries to give you different goyimtv results even the urban dictionary ‘goyim’, Telegram group, dlive, etc.
    What you find in Brave as the 2nd result which is ADL, Yandex gives it to you like on the 9th result by using lang:en, but if you just search without it or quotes, then it is the 10th (some videos appear in between"), if you use quotes ADL doesn’t even appear, if you use quotes in Brave it will look exactly the same.

  4. Stormfront well, domain appears on the 3rd result, while on yandex we have it on the first result as it belongs, 5th result is ADL while on Yandex it is like the 8th.

  5. odessa october 23rd 2014 you literally get 2 results worth in Brave while on Yandex you get articles about it. and it is just as bad as Google (I decided to test it against Google this time). In Yandex you have to use lang:en if not you get some some Cyrillic results, but it gives you more relevant information at least from Odessa, related or just past or present stuff. with Brave you get useless results that have nothing that anyone would be interested if they typed that query.

Should I say more? should I continue? put more ‘extreme’ cases to show people that Brave fails at giving results?

I already said how you can even get Nitter results, which I don’t think you would get in Brave, yeah it is a twitter frontend, but shows how different it can pick results.

For example search gheliason and you should see Nitter instances, I got two. And Brave shows good results, seem better in someways than Yandex, but you still get a better 2nd page in Yandex (I didn’t use 2nd page until now) than what Brave offers in their ‘2nd page’, and in Yandex you get the option to go further and find more info.

I mean use his whole name George Eliason (@gheliason) and you will find facebook as second result in Yandex while you don’t see facebook in Brave. Obviously in Yandex you get VK and OK.

So while you might say “it is not censorship” it shows the difference between the relevance of results. I could have even go on and find more results that would get banned anywhere. For example, stormfront doesn’t even appear in DDG.

Search for Ukraine on fire and you will get better results in Yandex, because it is obvious that if you search for that query you want the documentary and nothing else. And you can see the differences between Brave search and yandex easily, you get even some news about how it got banned from youtube, something you barely get in Brave.

People can argue “but Russia government” well, it seems they don’t do much to stop you from reading any type of relevant information.
I have many more examples extreme and simple but I think I made my point and I don’t want people to complain for the kind of “queries” I can test.

That’s why Yandex did well in the test.

Of course if you search for something simple like “Ukraine” (you have to search in english in Yandex) you will get full mainstream media stuff in Brave, I wonder if Brave displayed the MSM news when they showed videogames and fake videos. Yandex will give you two results RT and TASS, but I mean, the rest are actually relevant if you wanted to search for Ukraine country and nothing else, maps, government page, and some western news outlets. You get CNN and FOX and others until page 4th.

You can also use Advance Search button and click on English or add &lang=en to the Yandex search engine, you will get sometimes different results or the order will vary.
I like using lang:en in the query because it makes it easy, but the point still stands how Yandex show more relevant results depending what you want to search, it does the job better.

But of course I don’t expect people who have a biased view against Yandex and ‘Russia’ to even try it.

Like I said, the only thing I hate about Yandex is the captchas, but I like more the results.
The blogpost OP linked is exactly what I linked, of course, I only did it in Brave and Yandex.
But Yandex shows they don’t ‘alienate’ some domains because Mainstream media or government or Big Tech reputation.
They show the results and people can choose if they read them or not. If you search for something like Ukraine biolabs like the blog has, then you expect to find information about it not just Mainstreamedia western biased outlets on the 20 results. I mean, there is no ‘opposite’ view about it, so yes, it is censorship.
While on Yandex you get obviously the Russian outlets as a priority, but you also get the ones that deny their existance, and you get more pages to search and choose from. You get Bloomberg, reuters, usatoday.
So there is a mix between results unlike Brave.

Of course some people will still stay in denial and pretend if it doesn’t show whatever they want to see, they will say “well it is terrible” or “well, I think the results are the ones that should be there” depending on how biased you are about a subject.

But saying that Yandex is worst because it is done by Russia government is just ridiculous, when literally Google, Microsoft (the ones that give results to most search engines), they manipulate the results, most of them will give results that will be biased, and they do it because they think they are literally the Kings of the internet, just like DDG threw confetti yesterday about the de-ranking of results.

And Brendan Eich already said that Brave Search end goal is to be as unbiased as they can, he has said he doesn’t think Big Tech should tell you what to read and how to think.

So Brave technically is not censoring, but they get data from Google who does in many cases, also having only 20 results can affect that, because sometimes the topic needs 100 results at least to get mixed results, which you won’t get in Brave.
So searching Ukraine showed how things are done within Brave Search compared with Yandex.
Whatever you think is best is your problem but you can’t just say “Yandex must be worst” because you believe so.

I focused on different types of search queries than the blog, I could have used the same, more extreme. but I think my test is enough to do what nobody did but decided to comment on while not testing anything themselves.

You can try to cover the sun with a finger if you want and still pretend Yandex is this super firewalled search engine for news and some topics, but I believe western search engines and Big tech are more controlled and biased and manipulate results more.
Brave gets help from Google and Bing so it is not hard to understand it is technically not Brave’s fault but it still their fault for not making sure search results are less biased in many ways.

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Wow, @Emi !!! Thank you so much for your thorough analysis! More food for thought! :slight_smile:

As others kind of stated, Brave Search is new. It was released June 2021 and is still officially in Beta. https://brave.com/brave-search-beta/

And their Search is actually from where they bought Tailcat, so it’s not like it was started and built entirely by Brave. https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2021/03/03/brave-acquires-tailcat-to-create-private-search-engine-competitor-to-google/ and https://brave.com/brave-search/

Anyway, it’s accumulating results based on what users are searching and providing feedback on.

Want to point out that.

  1. You’ll see it says Brave BETA in the top left. This is because it’s not finished or fully released yet.
  2. Where it says All, Images, etc you’ll see to the right of it says Info and Feedback. You can click Feedback to provide feedback on Search results so they can look at it and modify as needed. Brave is hoping that Users will do this, to help things come out as smoothly as possible.
  3. They still borrow from Bing and others. They also are very open on each Search how much came from Brave. You can access this by hitting the Gear icon on the top right of the page (far opposite of where it says Brave Beta). When you do that, you’ll see the info as showed in the screenshot below.

So this means my Russia Today search results were 86% from Brave and the rest were borrowed.

And when I say they track based on our searches, they kind of address that further at https://search.brave.com/help/independence

Brave Search doesn’t track you or your queries. Ever. It’s impossible for us to share, sell, or lose your data, because we don’t collect it in the first place. We leverage your browser to store information on how our search engine is helping answer your queries independently.

I still get confused by that quote above. Not storing data but somehow leveraging our browser to create data that contributes to search. Almost sounds like doublespeak, but I guess just trying to say they are randomizing things and not creating any individual tracking? In any case, figured I’d point that out.

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Ok you lost me here.

Your opinion that yandex censors less compared to western search engines is wrong (IMO). Yandex bows and obeys what russin federation asks them.

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Look a bit more into Kaspersky, Telegram (Durov) why they got out of Russia to Switzerland, Dubai.

A company based into a country (headquarter) will have to follow that specific countries laws. Brave will follow US laws, Kaspersky will follow Swizz laws, Telegram will follow UAE laws.

Yandex main audience is in Russia and Russian-speaking users, and not western users. So they will always try to court Russian users over non-russian users.

@chh_68 ,

I used your ref. ReclaimTheNet.org link and at the web page, found another link to a different story – and used that story’s title as key words: search criteria in the Brave search engine . . . then finding:

Google Drive users stung by macOS ‘.DS_Store’ copyright infringement issue

https://forums.appleinsider.com/discussion/226319/google-drive-users-stung-by-macos-ds-store-copyright-infringement-issue

Excerpt: " Google Drive is causing problems for some macOS users, as the ubiquitous “.DS_Store” files are being misinterpreted by the [Google] cloud storage service as documents that infringe copyright."

I grabbed a “.DS_Store” file from a directory on my Mac, and used a perl script to read the file (because the files seem to be encrypted JSON files that require a password known to Apple or known to the Mac OS, but not apparently known to the user).

Such a “.DS_Store” file can easily contain hundreds of lines, such as, what some users call “bookmarks files.” Those, referring to “.webloc” files that are created when dragging a URL address from the URL address field of a browser . . . to a folder.

When the “.webloc” file settles in the destination folder, the name of the file usually is the web page title of the article at the URL address.

Thus, a “.DS_Store” file in the same destination folder, can end up containing the names of several article titles. The article titles would have plenty of terms pursuant to the contents of such articles.

Thereby, an snooping program authorized by Google, could easily mis-interpret the article titles as copyrighted content material from the body of such articles.

But the chance of Google only of late, discovering what the contents of an Apple directory maintenance item . . . are zero. The “.DS_Store” files have been a part of Mac OS X for decades. What they are, was written about in published articles – and the files’ guts examined – long ago.

What is Google going to do, about discovering the article titles for “misinformation” according to Google?

What is Google going to do, about Google software – particularly Google Analytics and Google Tag Manager – that are used by websites that are deemed untouchables by Google . . . who has decreed that information from such websites must not be seen by western eyes?

Though such untouchable information will still be seen by western eyes that find workarounds, along with millions of other Internet visitors.

Will Google deny the use of its software? Or only deny users access to news and information?

But then, there is the following:

As the thread starter here and taking all that I have seen and read here into consideration, I have decided to go with Result Hunter as my default search engine for now … https://www.resulthunter.com … Brave Search may be my #1 choice in the near future … I will keep my eye peeled. Thank you for all the wonderful input here so far. :slight_smile:

Back to Brave Search now after some disappointing search results on some basic stuff from Result Hunter’s search engine … :slight_smile: