Some qui pro quo with Uphold [solved]

Brave Rewards Custodian Support (Uphold, ZebPay, etc)
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1

Briefly describe your issue:
Uphold request me unnecessary data, I cannot access Brave services because they refuse to activate my account.
What Operating System and Brave version are you using?
1.71.21

Who is your verified custodian? (Uphold/Gemini/bitFlyer)
Uphold
Are you in a supported region? (see here for list of supported regions)
Yes.

I think there is something wrong with the way it works with your partner “Uphold”, I don’t think I can explain you better than sending you my Conversation with Uphold Support:

Me

I connected Brave Rewards with uphold wallet, uphold integrations tab says brave browser is connected to it. when I try to login in brave rewards to uphold wallet, the output message is: “Limited Uphold account functionality”. It seems the issue is related to the account being “under review”, because “someone” decided to ignore all the documents I already provided to prove I exist as an human being. Can you please activate my account something like instantaneusly, so I can instantaneously start earning rewards by watching ADS all day as I was supposed to do before having these weird kind of issues with your little third party service I didn’t expect I’d have needed and liked so much when I decided to opt-in to brave’s more ethical, privacy-focused and user respecting way of managing that nowadays such obscene as delicate matter of ads providing? I don’t think I am going to make any other use of uphold other than just as a wallet in which I accumulate (and eventually staking) my hardly earned BAT tokens temporarely, as I think I already explained I have absolutely no other income at the moment so all you have to do is to complete this review process in order to let me do my things and explore the magical world of web3. so…pretty please?

Me

almost 1 day passed and my account is still under review, nobody answered me yet. What’s wrong with your support service?

Uphold Support

Dear [name] ,

We apologize for the delay in responding to your request. We’re currently handling an unusually high volume of inquiries.

Rest assured, your query is important to us and is in our queue. We’re working diligently to respond to all requests as quickly as possible.

Please avoid raising a duplicate ticket, as our system will treat that, and the original, as a new request, resetting its place in the queue.

Thank you for your patience and understanding.

Best regards,

The Uphold Team
Uphold | Our FAQs | Blog

Uphold Support

Hi [name] ,

Thanks for contacting our support team, we’ll be glad to assist.

Thank you for providing the documentation requested. I’ll escalate your ticket to the relevant team to ensure your situation is handled swiftly. They’ll get back to you as soon as your documentation has been reviewed.

Thanks for your understanding.

Best regards,
Rafael and the Uphold Team
Uphold | Our FAQs | Blog

Uphold Support

Hi [name],

Thank you for choosing Uphold.

After our review, it appears we are still missing certain documents. Please answer the following:
How much money are you planning to invest on the Uphold platform?
How are you planning to afford the investments?
Can you provide documentation to support the source of your funds?

Please use the following link to upload your files:
[link]
Note: To avoid delay, please do not modify the ticket link and make sure to use the same email address as the one linked to this support ticket. Using a different email address will result in your file not being uploaded to our ticketing system. Thank you.

We look forward to hearing from you.

Best Regards,
The Uphold Compliance Team
Uphold | Our FAQs | Blog

Me

Sure, I’ll Answer all your questions:
I am actually planning to invest NO MONEY on the Uphold patform

I am using your service only to store the little Basic Attention Token Rewards I get from brave, I make no investments on your platform and I have no need to use any real money because all I am planning to do is to only transfer the BAT cryptocurrency from or to the brave wallet, or any other wallet. I will not use any real money on your platform.

Considering I have no source of income and it is not needed for the purposes explained above, I suppose you need no other proofs or documentations.

Can you please just activate my account now, so I can start earning rewards from brave? it is and must be just as easy as that. So please, activate my account as soon as you read this message without making me waste my time any further. Thank you.

Me

The Brave Browser Reward System will not work unless you activate my account, this is the only reason I am using Uphold, because I am forced to use your service to store the rewards I get from brave, you can always be sure about the source in that case, no need to make things more complicated than they are. Just be kind and help me in the process of earning some BATs while watching ads, I don’t want to waste more time complaining to the brave foundation about your behaviour, in case you create more unnecessary complications.

This is all I need your service for.jpg [screen of brave://rewards/ page, displaying Uphold as the only option as Custodial Account from my country]
100 KB Download

Me

I explain you in plain english,bro:

if

using your platform to store bat rewards

then

my source of income==bat rewards && no need for other documentation

else

you have the right to ask me for any documentation you like (but this is not the case)

Uphold Support

Hi [Name],

The specified documents and information are required to comply with the regulatory obligations that govern our industry, as well as to help maintain the security and integrity of our platform.

We appreciate your understanding and help with this, and assure you that we will keep your information safe throughout the process.

We see that you have stated that you are currently Self-employed, we kindly ask you to share information pertaining to your source of income. This can come from savings, salary, family aid, etc.

Likewise, we ask you to please send the most recent documentation confirming said source of income. Such as:
Complete bank statement (last 90 days, that reflects your income, name, residential address, and account details), or
Annual Tax Return

Please use this link to upload any documents, if needed:
[link]

Please Note: To avoid significant delay, please do not modify the ticket link and make sure to use the same email address as the one linked to this support ticket.

Thank you,
The Uphold Compliance Team
Uphold | Our FAQs | Blog

Me

Oh I see it is so difficult to you to understand simple logic. well well…

I cannot provide you any of these documentations, unfortunately.

I am specified I am an occasional worker, I do little works now and then but I have no documentation I can provide. In example if you walk out other people dogs, they give you cash but there’s no proof you received this cash and it’s not needed, and the mechanics are quite the same for many other occasional jobs.

That said I am not planning to move any money from or to your platform, only to receive BAT rewards from brave browser by watching some ADS in my free time, so you will never need the information you requesting me. In my opinion you should quit making all these silly questions I don’t have answer to, and just activate my account instead of keeping play the bully with the poor guys, pretending they are have money when they have not, my life sucks and I was hoping to earn some little cryptocurrency with brave browser. This is all you need to know.

Me

Or if the problem is I made a mistake with my statement, If considering me as an Unemployed works best for you explain me how I can change my statement in order to activate my account for the purposes I already specified, without requiring me to provide you documentations I simply can’t provide. All I am asking you is to be fair with me considering my situation, cause you can insist how much you want, I cannot provide you documentation I don’t have (it’s not that I don’t want to, I just don’t have it.)

Uphold Support

Hi [name],

Thank you for your reply.

As a regulated financial business, we’re obliged to collect the requested documentation. To understand why, please click here.

Regrettably, since you have been unwilling or unable to provide it, we will be unable to offer you our services going forward and your account will be closed.

We hope you will change your mind! If so, you can easily upload the requested documents in-app via Sendsafely. Once received and reviewed, we’ll be back in touch.

Kind regards,
The Uphold Compliance Team
Uphold | Our FAQs | Blog

Me

no no no, You don’t understand, if occasional worker doesn’t work for you then I am UNEMPLOYED, and consider me as that. If the issue is just my statement was wrong.Just tell me how to change it. You cannot tell me I cannot access your service only because I didn’t plan to deposit any FIAT currency on your platform, this assumption is just wrong.

Me

For christ sake man, I am not on your platform to do any investment, it is the only choice I have to store the Basic Attention Token rewards from the brave browser. I don’t have any income to document, I was planning to make some money by watching ads, and uphold wallet in this scenario is only needed to store the Basic Attention Tokens, Since I will not use Uphold to cash out, fiat money or banks or financial institutions aren’t involved at all. What’s the problem? how can you be that intolerant to say I cannot use your services and my account will be closed only because I don’t have any income so no documentation to show you as a proof? seriously I think you should reconsider what you just said because: if I am unable to provide the requested documentation because I have no source of income, you are basically discriminating against me.

3

@gn0n1mbat What you’re at is what they call KYC/AML. Governments are even stricter with cryptocurrency, with a lot of companies getting themselves in big trouble lately for not doing proper checks.

According to what you share, it seems you told them you were self-employed. Doing this or telling them you have any sort of income now legally makes them get proof of the source of funds. And you can’t say “oh shoot, I didn’t know you would ask me for proof. Let’s pretend I never said that.” You locked yourself into it and they have no choice but to get more information from you.

And even if you say unemployed, they’d want to see your bank account and potentially proof of how you’re surviving. Again, they are being forced to show you’re not about to be a scammer, do money laundering, etc. So at least they will have some basic information. If your bank has a decent amount of money in and out, they would need to know where it’s coming from and that it’s legitimate.

Also want to tell you that when you say you’re doing things like dog walking or anything that earns you a profit, that’s an income. That is supposed to be reported to the government and is taxable. If you’re telling them you have no records of such earnings, then you are admitting that you are not abiding by laws. This means there’s a higher likelihood of you doing things you shouldn’t.

In the end, all you needed was something for them to have to “cover their ass.” They mentioned even that your source of income could be aid from family or whatever. Once you had that, then they would have wanted some statement to prove that. You never even stopped to ask them what type of documentation or proof they’d need. Instead you just argued and tried demanding they ignore the policy and the law to match your convenience.

When I first signed up for Uphold I was homeless and had no job. I forget what I had to submit to them but think I had gotten a nonprofit to vouch that I was homeless and then I submitted my bank details where they could see didn’t have money in and out. From there they were able to activate it and things stayed good.

4

Also for what it’s worth, that’s not necessarily true either. You may wish to read through everything at PSA: Current and upcoming changes to Rewards and Creators

5

"And even if you say unemployed, they’d want to see your bank account and potentially proof of how you’re surviving. "
what if I don’t even have bank account or I need BAT rewards to survive? that’s discrimination man.

6

so will it be okay if I send them a picture of a dog as a proof of income?

7

Then you’d have no way to withdraw the BAT or use it. I’m pretty sure that Uphold requires a bank account. If you don’t have a bank account, then can’t have an Uphold account. But no expert on that, just what I’m wanting to say off the top of my head. That’s because of what they are for.

Rewards doesn’t pay that much. If you were thinking you could survive on it, you’re way off.

No, it’s laws. And no place is willing to go to prison so you can earn a little BAT each month.

Not sure if you’ll want to read through links provided, but you may find interesting some of the information I share at Helpful Info & FAQ for Brave Users - #27 by Saoiray

8

Obviously some sarcasm you’re using there. But they likely would have asked for an affidavit from one of your customers or something. You would have had to ask them what was needed for proof rather than just straight up telling them you can’t or won’t give them anything.

9

What I am questioning is if I only use their services for storing Basic Attention Tokens, not connecting any bank account to their services, not using Uphold to cash out and not dealing with fiat currencies in any way, there is no need for them to have my bank account, or the Brave choice to have a multi-purpose platform as a partner isn’t the best solution at all…
by the way, if I send BAT to another wallet or exchange, if then I cash out from that other service, they are supposed to already have all the required financial documentation, why they expect me to send them such kind of documentation if we are only talking about the cryptocurrency and not about their market value here? let’s suppose I use BAT to support creators, in example. Is my bank account involved in any way? the answer is “no”, right? then they don’t need my bank documentation.

10

Brave had been using Uphold and such services as legal teams advised to do so. The partners guaranteed that compliance was followed and Brave as able to avoid any shaky areas of government. There’s actually been a lot of companies, even Binance and Coinbase, which have gotten into a lot of trouble for KYC/AML compliance issues. Like if you read https://www.theverge.com/2023/1/4/23538731/coinbase-fine-crypto-money-laundering-laws-new-york you’ll see where Coinbase paid $50 million in fines. Or Binance had $4.3 billion in settlements, as seen at https://www.forbes.com/sites/tylerroush/2024/02/23/judge-approves-binances-43-billion-settlement-for-anti-money-laundering-sanctions-violations/#:~:text=Topline,laundering%20laws%20and%20violating%20sanctions.

Taking all of that, I think places like Uphold are always trying to make sure they put in at least some effort to avoid issues. And as I had edited in prior reply of mine before this last response of yours, I do think they may now require bank accounts for things to be active. I just don’t feel like combing through their Terms to verify either way.

Honestly there’s a lot of argument and discussion on this. As I went to answer, I felt like I was writing a book. I get your frustration and partially agree, but it’s just that they aren’t operating as that. They have to be cautious not only because of laws, but there’s also the aspect they are a business that’s there for profit. As you have explained, there’s little to no profit for them and it would be more of a disadvantage and risk to allow you to have an account in those circumstances. It gets far more complex and perhaps I’m phrasing wrong, but just is how I’m going to say that for now.

If can do on-chain, then you’re fine. It’s not really until you convert to fiat that there are any issues. Newer legal advice and changes helped Brave to feel more comfortable with that. This is why they are shifting away from the custodial partners and trying to just do direct payments to people.

Until it’s more stabilized though, it just means people are stuck with the more centralized aspects of custodial partners like Uphold who have higher restrictions. But they are regularly inviting people to on-chain payments and are hoping to have it as a default method as soon as they can.

11

Also, if I choose to opt-in to brave reward system, Uphold has a third party role in that. Why should I send so much documentation to a third party? Any rational being would feel discuraged in using that feature, or worse, would stop using brave browser and look for or go back to other privacy aware alternatives like firefox based browsers, or else… you are probably undervaluing how much this partnership is damaging brave finances, there are other causes, but I am not here to investigate them, I am just saying there should be easier way to earn BATs, without spoiling users identities and financial data.

12

Which goes back to a lot of what I already told you. Not sure if you didn’t look at what I was saying about on-chain payments?

13

yeah, I agree with almost everything you said here, let me add to this that it is should not be their issue if on their platform I only do crypto-to-crypto transfers, because what matters for KYC/AML is the conversion to fiat and the cash-out. This is the main reason of so much questioning from my side, I think that, for that reward system to be more private and secure, brave should have as an option a wallet which allows transfer to other wallets which are KYC/AML complied but offer no conversion to fiat, so that hypotetical service would not need that whole KYC/AML thing and Brave will do better to grant user freedom to choose their prefered way to cash out, cause it will not be their responsibility where the BATs go.

I’m aware my english isn’t perfect, but this is just my opinion. I just think it would work batter this way, and that something like that would make many unsatisfied users like me, more happy with the brave rewards system

14

@gn0n1mbat let me ask again, have you seen what I shared about on-chain payments? I’ll shorten things up a bit. Go read https://brave.com/blog/rewards-solana/

15

yeah I am not the fastest of the readers, give me time to do that :stuck_out_tongue:

16

Haha, all good. TL:DR is Brave is paying directly to wallets now. No KYC/AML required. Everything on-chain.

It’s invite only for now and slowly growing. Key thing is, they are doing what you’re saying want to see.

And that first link I provided, PSA: Current and upcoming changes to Rewards and Creators, also has instructions on how to apply to the waitlist to try to be invite for on-chain.

17

well it is good to know someone is already working on making this world a better place, can you please shorten things a bit further and tell me how long do you think it will take for this to become a reality? Because man I really like that project, and I think Brave people are cool people, even if they disappointed me so much now and then especially on the rewards system partnership matter, I can’t wait to finally enjoy that super-interesting feature as intended, without all those dark clouds in the way.

18

To be honest, it’s hard to say for sure. Originally, the goal was to have everything up and running around now, but it seems like mid-next year—possibly around July—is a more realistic target. Of course, this could change if there are any additional delays, and so far, they haven’t shared a specific timeline.

To reiterate though, people are already receiving on-chain payments. It is already a reality. It’s just a slow growth and the goal I’m answering about is when it becomes a default option for everyone.

19

Then I’ll try to stay updated about the project developement,I think it is an interesting project, and of course something that is really needed, until then, I think I’ll just wait patiently, but with a different mood, cause even if Uphold wouldn’t want to let me in anyway, you been able to turn my desperation into some kind of hope. I thank you for that.

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20

Okay, it seems this whole thing with Uphold is solved, they seem to have understood that I will use their platform solely to store my BAT rewards from the Brave browser without plans for further financial transactions. They still asked me for some documentation to comply with KYC and regulatory standards, they have been really kind and after I provided sufficient proofs they activated my account. I am happy we solved this little misunderstanding but I still wish this topic to stay open just in case somebody else get a similiar issue in the future and need some help, a way out of troubles or just to reflect a bit on the matter. Have A Nice Day everyone :slight_smile:

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